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Google requests removal of Google Maps support from MGMaps
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Cristian Streng
Founder


Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 4585

Phone Type: (many)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cinq-Marquis wrote:
I am sorry to hear this (as I am a Google fan).
I'd have thought that Mr. G/. would contact you with the message that a check for $ 5,000,000.00 was on its way to you for your excellent work !

Hehe, they're a company, remember? That means they would only show signs of appreciation if those signs increased the profit Smile

Cinq-Marquis wrote:
Apart from the tech stuff.... will it still work on my N95 or should I remove it ?

Sure, it will still work on your N95, it will also access any stored maps (pre-downloaded) including Google's.

avs wrote:
It would be possible to use the wikimapia?

Sure, wikimapia functionality is still there - it doesn't have anything to do with google maps support.
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tomsoft
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Joined: 02 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:40 am    Post subject: MGMaps/J2memap Reply with quote

Well, interesting news....

I would also that MGMaps was not the only application before GoogleMap mobile, j2memap appears in summer 2005 too ( http://J2memap.landspurg.net ) , so before GoogleMap mobile.

Did not received yet a letter from Google, it will probably happens in the future too.....

I've tried to contact Google several times to get a commercial aggreement with them, without any succes!
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Cristian Streng
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Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 4585

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: MGMaps/J2memap Reply with quote

tomsoft wrote:
Well, interesting news....

I would also that MGMaps was not the only application before GoogleMap mobile, j2memap appears in summer 2005 too, so before GoogleMap mobile.

Yes, there were other applications even before us... http://www.sreid.org/GMapViewer/ . They never received any termination message from google, but stopped development for some other reason.

tomsoft wrote:
Did not received yet a letter from Google, it will probably happens in the future too.....

I wouldn't be surprised if it does...

tomsoft wrote:
I've tried to contact Google several times to get a commercial aggreement with them, without any succes!

Well, whenever they ask some project to terminate [example 1] [example 2], they put the blaim on their providers (navteq, teleatlas, etc.) and say their license only allows the use of map images in google products. While that may be true, there's still something wrong with the fact they allow free use of the maps in web mashups but not in mobile applications.

In other news, there's an article on Ogle Earth about MGMaps and this situation.
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MrPete
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Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 38

Phone Type: Palm 755p

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure it is the mobile aspect. This is from the Google Maps license wording online:

The Google Maps license specifically says the following:

Quote:
Except where you have been specifically licensed to do so by Google, you may not use Google Maps with any products, systems, or applications installed or otherwise connected to or in communication with vehicles, capable of vehicle navigation, positioning, dispatch, real time route guidance, fleet management or similar applications.
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Cristian Streng
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Joined: 28 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrPete wrote:
I'm pretty sure it is the mobile aspect. This is from the Google Maps license wording online:

It may be the mobile aspect, considering google has a mobile application too with less features than MGMaps. However I don't think the reason is related to that paragraph or to the fact that the application includes GPS functionality.

Cristian
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MrPete
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Joined: 10 Feb 2007
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Phone Type: Palm 755p

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be cell phone, or could be vehicle, gps, tracking, etc.

I'm familiar with map data licensing going waaayyy back. It's common for providers to license specific data for specific purposes. They can sell to different clients, for different purposes, for different $$$.

Since vehicle/tracking/gps systems are a humongous market, it's no surprise that the Google Maps license prohibits use for those things.

Since Google has created specific end-user tools, it's also no surprise that their license prohibits reuse for other purposes.

If it were otherwise, Navtech et al would ultimately only have a single customer -- once licensed to that customer, nobody else would bother; they'd just copy the original data.

Ultimately, this issue is likely to kill MGMap's legal access to proprietary map data from ALL sources, not just Google. Gotta either find public domain sources, or find a way to become integrated into something like the Google business model.
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N1029676
MGMapper


Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Fort Lewis, WA, USA
Phone Type: Unknown

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is really disappointing.

Christian, we are all proud of you and your awesome app that you have worked on so far. Removal of Google Maps is a definite bummer but, i guess we will live, after all we still have GMaps!
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n95_rit
Power User


Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 125

Phone Type: Nokia N95-1

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Cristian,
i agree with the various posts here that this is really disappointing on Google's part, and limiting the great work done by you on mgmaps. I think the google guys got to mobile gmaps on ideas similar to your and other's apps! I do hope they change their decision esp since your application is freeware and your are not commercially benefiting from mgmaps ...

On a technical level, is it possible that mgmaps works inside a browser like safari or opera mini ? In that case, it should be possible to use Java and Javascript right ?

I hope other sites like yahoo, ms etc don't follow google's narrow vision on this.

Regards
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Cristian Streng
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Joined: 28 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

n95_rit wrote:
On a technical level, is it possible that mgmaps works inside a browser like safari or opera mini ? In that case, it should be possible to use Java and Javascript right ?

Well, that wouldn't be possible. Opera mini is (simply put) a software that displays and scrolls images served by the opera server. The web pages are pre-rendered on the server up to some level, the mobile version has no real javascript support as far as I know. The web browser in N95 and other Nokias is based on Safari and has support for Javascript, but not to the level of javascript used by google maps or the google maps api. In short, mgmaps would work in a browser according to the google maps api terms only if the full google maps site worked in the mobile browser...
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sune
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Joined: 06 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Using Google Maps Reply with quote

Sorry to hear this.

There are of course strong commercial interrests from NAVTEQ since your free product competes with their commercial products.

But Google did provide the best map i Norway.
Is there a way if one used a private Google Maps API key?
Or how could one use a proxy to provide Google maps anyway?


BR Sune Jakobsson
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Cristian Streng
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Google Maps Reply with quote

sune wrote:
But Google did provide the best map i Norway.
Is there a way if one used a private Google Maps API key?
Or how could one use a proxy to provide Google maps anyway?

No, I don't think that the Google Maps API key would matter for them... But you can configure mgmaps to connect to google maps by adding a custom map type... I'm not going to provide the configuration here but there are others who already did that on this forum (hint: search for google.com).
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hjm
Junior


Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Finland
Phone Type: Nokia 7900 Prism

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just had updated the midlet I had on my cellphone to newer one and I was quite surprised it didn't have Google maps anymore. Reading the news on this site was quite depressing.

But making it possible to use custom map server was a nice move, Christian! I just wonder if Google can still say your app is violating their terms. Can they? Obviously, you are not telling what the map server address is, but that was easy to find with err... Google's search engine.

Keep it up Christian! Your app is really the best you can get to mobiles, only Opera Mini can compete with it!
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gpz
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Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 1
Location: Brazil
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:40 pm    Post subject: Google Reply with quote

Hi, until yesterday August 15 my old 1.33.08 MGMaps version was acessing normaly Google data; today August 16 cant display any satellite view, only map. Same behaviour with "personal" servers customized in recent versions ?
Gian-Paolo - Brazil
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Cristian Streng
Founder


Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 4585

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: Google Reply with quote

gpz wrote:
Hi, until yesterday August 15 my old 1.33.08 MGMaps version was acessing normaly Google data; today August 16 cant display any satellite view, only map. Same behaviour with "personal" servers customized in recent versions ?
Gian-Paolo - Brazil

No, this still works fine. Try Help/Update Check to update the map versions, maybe that is the problem.
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danyvip
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Joined: 17 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:46 am    Post subject: map24 Reply with quote

Hi,
Could you please take a look at map24? They're mapping eastern europe right now and offering routable maps.

Is there a way to add them as a custom map? For me, this would be a google-killer (for online maps at least).

Thanks
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Cristian Streng
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Joined: 28 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: map24 Reply with quote

danyvip wrote:
Hi,
Could you please take a look at map24? They're mapping eastern europe right now and offering routable maps.

Is there a way to add them as a custom map? For me, this would be a google-killer (for online maps at least).

Thanks

I don't think there's any way to do that, since they don't provide imagery output in tiles (the big output image is generated on the server).


Last edited by Cristian Streng on Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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sxpert
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Joined: 20 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi there
I am one of the main contributors to OpenStreetMap, a community project that has a goal of replacing google maps and all other map data distributors.
The project is based on a wiki-like system where everyone can create and update their area of the world.
granted, the maps are not complete (yet *g*), but the more people participate, the faster completeness (or complete enough to be useable) will be achieved.

see http://www.openstreetmap.org for details (make sure to check out the wiki too)
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Cristian Streng
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sxpert wrote:
hi there
I am one of the main contributors to OpenStreetMap, a community project that has a goal of replacing google maps and all other map data distributors.
The project is based on a wiki-like system where everyone can create and update their area of the world.
granted, the maps are not complete (yet *g*), but the more people participate, the faster completeness (or complete enough to be useable) will be achieved.

see http://www.openstreetmap.org for details (make sure to check out the wiki too)

Hi,

I know about OpenStreetMap, in fact MGMaps has support for it - you can enable it in Settings/Map Types. The maps are far from being "complete" compared with the maps provided by the big providers, but you're right, if enough people contribute they may become usable for some regions.
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ghostbox
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Joined: 27 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: what bs Reply with quote

wouldn't it be possible to create a intermediary application which simply takes a location request and displays the google map?

this way the intermediary does not violate tos, as it simply takes a location request and displays the result. and mgmaps is good to go because it only displays maps from the intermediary...just remove any references to google in the application.

its all just semantics

or just as well...a link to some random free hosting service with mgmaps available for download and magically the google maps still works.

in the end...if users have already gone through all the trouble to get mgmaps when they could just pay their mobile provider a few bucks...they will continue to work around the barriers...attempts by google, or others, to block it will be futile - but perhaps these attempts are just to save face???
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ghostbox
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Google Maps Reply with quote

sune wrote:
Sorry to hear this.

There are of course strong commercial interrests from NAVTEQ since your free product competes with their commercial products.

BR Sune Jakobsson


Quote:
Except where you have been specifically licensed to do so by Google, you may not use Google Maps with any products, systems, or applications installed or otherwise connected to or in communication with vehicles, capable of vehicle navigation, positioning, dispatch, real time route guidance, fleet management or similar applications.

http://www.teleatlas.com/WhyTeleAtlas/Pressroom/PressReleases/TA_D_010118

http://www.telenav.com/about/pr/pr-20060906.html

tele atlas / navteq provides data for google. both of these companies have agreements with telenav, which provides a gps positioning service which users can subscribe for $9.95/mo with sprint. hmm wonder why they wouldn't want anyone using the data for positioning??

400k downloads of mgmaps * $10/mo = $4,000,000/mo. yea...that might be a little incentive for them.
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