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Google requests removal of Google Maps support from MGMaps
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Cristian Streng
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Joined: 28 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: what bs Reply with quote

ghostbox wrote:
wouldn't it be possible to create a intermediary application which simply takes a location request and displays the google map?

this way the intermediary does not violate tos, as it simply takes a location request and displays the result. and mgmaps is good to go because it only displays maps from the intermediary...just remove any references to google in the application.

That's more or less what I did with the support for Custom Maps. In this case there's no intermediary but the user needs to enter the URL for Google maps (it can be found on this forum). With an intermediary application it would be a TOS problem with this application as it would display the google maps and it would contain reference to google.

ghostbox wrote:
or just as well...a link to some random free hosting service with mgmaps available for download and magically the google maps still works.

Yep, that's what I have in mind next for Custom Maps - some "preset" lists of custom maps that can be loaded from some predefined locations. Of course, the hosting providers could be asked by Google to take down the page...
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ghostbox
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:49 am    Post subject: Re: what bs Reply with quote

Cristian Streng wrote:

Yep, that's what I have in mind next for Custom Maps - some "preset" lists of custom maps that can be loaded from some predefined locations. Of course, the hosting providers could be asked by Google to take down the page...


sounds perfect! good thing there are so many free hosting providers Wink or possibly a torrent might be more effective...
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skatebiker
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:04 am    Post subject: MGMaps is free so why not allowed to use Google Maps ? Reply with quote

The whole discussion on the denial of use of Google Maps is about the use of mobile applications.

When MGMaps were a commercial application then Google is right as making money by riding on the success of Google without paying royalties is illegal and then Google is right.

However, MGMaps is free and Cristian does not make money with the product so what are Google complaining about ???

Maybe Google has no right to cut off usage of a free public application...??
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gsok
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:03 am    Post subject: Re: Google requests removal of Google Maps support from MGMa Reply with quote

Google has a lot department`s. One we know now, it`s the "Google Enforcement Team".

Currently there is no permission to do so but read very carefully...

Cristian Streng wrote:

...
Quote:

...
you should not create
derivative works, such as your application, without contacting us and
obtaining our permission first.
...

...


The department who mailed you has not to decide if you get permission or not. It was just their task that you don`t have at the moment and them informed you.

BUT.

It might be a good idea to ask them for permission.

However, this is still a great program. Don`t drop it, you have still enough fans. Cool
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Cristian Streng
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Google requests removal of Google Maps support from MGMa Reply with quote

gsok wrote:
The department who mailed you has not to decide if you get permission or not. It was just their task that you don`t have at the moment and them informed you.

Maybe you didn't read it carefully, they requested that I remove support for google maps.

And FYI, I did discuss with someone at Google who informed me there is _no_ chance they will ever allow the use of their map data in _any_ mobile application. That's simply because the terms of their providers specifically mention that. So all the other applications similar to Mobile GMaps are illegal in Google's vision, they simply did not go to them because they didn't consider them to be of any significance Smile

Cristian
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gsok
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Google requests removal of Google Maps support from MGMa Reply with quote

Cristian Streng wrote:
Maybe you didn't read it carefully, they requested that I remove support for google maps.

Yes, department 1 requested to remove support for google because you have no agreement yet. The work of this department is only to find and to hut down breaking agreements but not to make new agreements.

But there is another department where you can make and application/suggestion for an new agreement. The department who mailed you hasn`t to judge that. It`s strict distribution of tasks.

Google has now own google maps software for j2me. I think you really should try the legal way and ask them. There is nothing to loose, it`s just a question. With applications it`s also sometimes good when other peoples have to judge, google`s staff policy is more innovation then conservative so a policy change or special agreement is not that improbable.
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Cristian Streng
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Google requests removal of Google Maps support from MGMa Reply with quote

gsok wrote:
Google has now own google maps software for j2me. I think you really should try the legal way and ask them. There is nothing to loose, it`s just a question. With applications it`s also sometimes good when other peoples have to judge, google`s staff policy is more innovation then conservative so a policy change or special agreement is not that improbable.

Let me rephrase: I did ask them and they said no.
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neil.young
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Cristian,

I recently found your nice app. The Google thing was very intersting to me, because I recently wrote a comparible app in python for S60, which got the tiles from Google. I already thought that there might be some legal problems and there are some, indeed.

I'm still wondering: The Google guys did obviously not complain about your usage of their Routes and Directions API (?!) Besides: Routes and directions are coming in English only, although I've chosen German. At least with the 2.x API there are parameters in the query string, by which you might control the language of the presented routes (&hl=de&gl=de), probably this info is useful to you.

Regards
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Cristian Streng
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neil.young wrote:
I'm still wondering: The Google guys did obviously not complain about your usage of their Routes and Directions API (?!) Besides: Routes and directions are coming in English only, although I've chosen German. At least with the 2.x API there are parameters in the query string, by which you might control the language of the presented routes (&hl=de&gl=de), probably this info is useful to you.

You're right, I know the directions are available in various languages, and I'll add support for them in mgmaps some time later.

Cristian
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neil.young
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I ask again: Do you know about any restriction using the Routes and Direction API as is applied to the Map API?

BTW: Seems, that neither Yahoo nor Microsoft claim any properties here. That is strange enough...

Regards and Happy New Year
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Cristian Streng
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neil.young wrote:
May I ask again: Do you know about any restriction using the Routes and Direction API as is applied to the Map API?

No, I don't know about any such restrictions...
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srdjan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Cristian!

I have just recently browsed the Google Maps API FAQ, and it says:

http://code.google.com/apis/maps/faq.html#mapsformobile

How do I deliver Maps applications on mobile devices?

The Google Maps API requires a complete JavaScript environment which is not broadly supported on existing mobile devices. We recommend using the Google Static Maps API to deliver customized maps to mobile phones:


http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/staticmaps/

This delivers maps in GIF/JPG/PNG format, and supports a map type targeted at mobile devices.

---

At the second link, you can even find ways to get "mobile map images, designed for better display on mobile devices with higher resolutions and smaller screen sizes."

Maybe TOS had changed recently in a way that it makes possible now to use Google Maps in mobile application?

Srdjan
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neil.young
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it does not change anything. Static Maps is just a way to render a static map image outside the client machine (without JavaScript and stuff), so that the client browser just has to display a graphics. Although you may place some POIs and markers on that graphics, it does not allow you to pan or zoom from the initial position. In other words - it is useless for Christian's purposes.

Regards
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srdjan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neil, I do understand how it works. I stumbled upon the link
http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/J2ME_Google_Maps_API

I was wondering if the fact they have this option available in the first place allows developers to display map tiles on mobiles. This was initial TOS problem with map providers etc. -- if I understood discussion on this topic correctly.

Being developer of mobile application myself, I have a doubt whether to go "legally" with Google Maps API or not - or continue "stealing" Virtual Earth ortho tiles (pretty much the same way as I would use Google Static Maps API)

Srdjan
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Cristian Streng
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

srdjan wrote:
Neil, I do understand how it works. I stumbled upon the link
http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/J2ME_Google_Maps_API

I was wondering if the fact they have this option available in the first place allows developers to display map tiles on mobiles. This was initial TOS problem with map providers etc. -- if I understood discussion on this topic correctly.

Being developer of mobile application myself, I have a doubt whether to go "legally" with Google Maps API or not - or continue "stealing" Virtual Earth ortho tiles (pretty much the same way as I would use Google Static Maps API)

Srdjan

I understand what you mean... but the terms still include some specifics that say 'you are not allowed to access the map tiles directly without going through the API'. The API provides only AJAX, flash or static (large image) maps.
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neil.young
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/J2ME_Google_Maps_API


From my own experience - all my postings have been removed from Google's forums, because I've discussed and published my knowledge about Google Maps for Mobile internals (find it now at http://maps.alphadex.de) - I would doubt, that this use case does _not_ attack Google's flagship application and does _not_ violate GOOG's T&C in any way. But I do not have to judge on this.

Regards
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Cristian Streng
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neil.young wrote:
Quote:
http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/J2ME_Google_Maps_API


From my own experience - all my postings have been removed from Google's forums, because I've discussed and published my knowledge about Google Maps for Mobile internals (find it now at http://maps.alphadex.de) - I would doubt, that this use case does _not_ attack Google's flagship application and does _not_ violate GOOG's T&C in any way. But I do not have to judge on this.

Regards

They can say you have reverse-engineered their application/service (even if you have not decompiled it, reverse-engineering can mean a lot of things)... and that's definitely against their ToS.
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